April Lon Gon - Former tard wrangler of Spoony, future Bethesda C&D target

[Guest]

Though I must admit some of the whining against 4th edition was pretty fun, and they all revolve around that little suspension of disbelief that non-casters need to be super realistic, while casters can do anything because magic.
"Muh D&D is ruined because that Warlord can shout arms back on". Dude, you're fucking Barbarian can take like 15 crossbow bolts to the face

And does anyone else heard about guys going "I don't want Fighters to be able to do more than stand around and hit people because muh little brother or whoeverthefuck doesn't want anything more engaging". I'm not making that up, those exist. There's like some knockoff game called The 13th Age where this was the entire design philosphy of the Fighter and Barbarian.

Meh? Most of the criticism of 4th I've heard and I hold to is that everything was a power with two paragraphs of text to it. Even small, tidy games had Power Cards arranged like a game of Magic, or a file folder to list them all. The dumb 'kindly ignore logic, even by fantasy standards' aspects were just icing on the cake.

The arguments for the fighter being simple thing is just that. As before, there are players who have unfathomable difficulties understanding "Roll this, add this" and have to ask every single round. You don't want to ask those people to track spell slots (ranger and up), let alone keep track of what their assorted spells do (sorcerer), let alone maintain a working knowledge of every available spell in their spell list (wizard/cleric). They won't enjoy it and it'll just piss off everyone else.

I know a good half-dozen people I wouldn't trust with anything more complex than a rogue. Most of them are at least aware of it and stick to the simpler stuff for the same reason.

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

I just want my Fighters to be like a cross between Guts and Sol Badguy. That wouldn't actually be out of place with the batshit insane stuff going on in high-level adventures.

And Power Cards are best cards.


Though 4th ed definitely went a bit overboard with the complexity. It's like it was built for some kind of Neverwinter Nights game that never materialized.

Fuck, you can probably make an easier approximation of 4th ed with Hero System. That game might have editions the size of a fucking phone book, but at least there everything's front-loaded with CharGen shit, with combat being strangely less of a clusterfuck than 3rd and 4th ed.

[MegaNigger]

Though I must admit some of the whining against 4th edition was pretty fun, and they all revolve around that little suspension of disbelief that non-casters need to be super realistic, while casters can do anything because magic.
"Muh D&D is ruined because that Warlord can shout arms back on". Dude, you're fucking Barbarian can take like 15 crossbow bolts to the face

And does anyone else heard about guys going "I don't want Fighters to be able to do more than stand around and hit people because muh little brother or whoeverthefuck doesn't want anything more engaging". I'm not making that up, those exist. There's like some knockoff game called The 13th Age where this was the entire design philosphy of the Fighter and Barbarian.

Meh? Most of the criticism of 4th I've heard and I hold to is that everything was a power with two paragraphs of text to it. Even small, tidy games had Power Cards arranged like a game of Magic, or a file folder to list them all. The dumb 'kindly ignore logic, even by fantasy standards' aspects were just icing on the cake.

The arguments for the fighter being simple thing is just that. As before, there are players who have unfathomable difficulties understanding "Roll this, add this" and have to ask every single round. You don't want to ask those people to track spell slots (ranger and up), let alone keep track of what their assorted spells do (sorcerer), let alone maintain a working knowledge of every available spell in their spell list (wizard/cleric). They won't enjoy it and it'll just piss off everyone else.

I know a good half-dozen people I wouldn't trust with anything more complex than a rogue. Most of them are at least aware of it and stick to the simpler stuff for the same reason.

This is why I'm always against newbies being the cleric/medic character. That role takes some finesse to play properly. Granted, you can slot every spell slot with healing spells and tell the person to roll whenever you need HP, but that role is wasted at that point. I had a War/Good(Protection?) domain cleric of that nature that would keep the party buffed so we over all took less damage while dealing more, and I got to be a fighter class mixing it up in combat. Even Rogues if played with any semblance of skill should be rolling for intel, fighting at range or getting behind enemies or scouting and shit.

Fighter might truly be the best class for newbshits. If nothing else because if they forget their feats, they can at least remember what fucking weapon they are swinging and swing it at the enemy really fucking hard and constantly.

[mad bum]

Clerics are just the best classes next to wizard, especially in the new edition

Divine Intervention
Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.

Imploring your deity’s aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate.

If your deity intervenes, you can’t use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest.

At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.

You quite literally get the hand of God for a get out of jail free card, it's so broken.

[Whybother]

... wow... that sounds like the tabletop version of a "win the game" button.

[mad bum]

It obviously depends on your DM, but it could really ruin any sort of drama in the party when you can simply ask your God to bring someone back, or have your God basically clear your quest by outright killing the high level Lich because he's evil.

[Whybother]

In other words... play 2nd edition and use your own homebrew systems. That's the most balance you can get... because most of what came after is retarded paper versions of World of Warcraft and etc.

[Kugelfisch]

Sure it did.

Did the Elon Musk smell like empty promises, stupidity and overconfidence?

[Whybother]

The Elon Musk smelled like makeup and a Chevy Bolt.

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

Divine Intervention
Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.

Imploring your deity’s aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate.

If your deity intervenes, you can’t use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest.

At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.

And just for comparison, the manchilds behind Pathfinder nerfed weapon cords into the ground after one of them did some "myth busting" and deemed them as too unrealistic.

Meanwhile, the party Monk can jump from the top of Mount Everest without hurtin himself, the Druid is an Agressively Hegemonizing Ursine Swarm, the Wizard flies around and drops angels or devils everywhere, and the Cleric is the Angel Summoner to the Fighter's BMX Bandit.

In other words... play 2nd edition and use your own homebrew systems. That's the most balance you can get... because most of what came after is retarded paper versions of World of Warcraft and etc.

Or pick the Rules Cyclopedia like a real mean. Why buy at least three books if this one even let's you do shit that the "advanced" editions forgot, like sailing through space and becoming a god?